Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

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Kakapo42
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:35 pm

Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Kakapo42 »

It is 2520 of the Imperial Calendar, in the bitter cold of late Autumn.

You are Scalfron, Son of Scalfeor, Prince of Caledor, Fair of Judgement and Pure of Heart. Your latest quest to the Old World has ended in triumph, and you have done the Phoenix King a great honour. The greenskin hordes of Nazgob have been scattered by your hand and the human Empire is safe to fight another day, and even the hateful Dwarfs have sent a single word missive of begrudging thanks for saving their holds in the Grey Mountains from Nazgob's tyranny.

But your troubles are not yet over. In your adventures you have drawn the ire of the foul creature known in hushed words as Petyr The Abominable. This loathsome monster of death is bent on capturing you, not only so that he might study the magic of your noble Elven blood for use in his own unspeakable evil, but also so that he might glean from you the hiding place of the dreaded Blood Star, a cursed amulet you secreted from the hands of men many centuries ago, and the resting place of which you alone know now.

Petyr The Abominable has marshalled his armies against you and has already cut off the passage to your ships anchored off the coast of The Wastelands, leaving you trapped against the Grey Mountains. You still have enough supplies to maintain your army for now, but you will need to bring the villain to battle sooner rather than later in order to have any chance of returning to fair Ulthuan.

At your side you command the following host:
LORDS
Scalfron, Fair of Judgement (YOU!): Prince with Longbow, Shield, Blade of Leaping Gold, Armour of Heroes, Amulet of The Purifying Flame, Pure of Heart, riding a Dragon

HEROES
Fenix the Loyal: Commander Battle Standard Bearer with Dragon Armour and Battle Banner

Solanair the Swift: Commander with Dragon Armour and Swordmaster

Fealanar the Bold: Commander with Halberd, Shield and Lion Guard

Glormeth of the Swift Wind: Commander with Longbow, Dragon Armour, Shield, Blade of Darting Steel riding the Chariot Arrow of The Wind

Falcoth of the Silver Moonlight: Commander with Longbow, Dragon Armour, Shield, Sword of Striking and Blessed Tome

Beathryelle Fierce of Heart: Commander with Longbow, Light Armour, Shield, Sword of Might and Talisman of Saphery, riding an Elven Steed

Sarathwyn the Lioness: Commander with Heavy Armour, Shield and Blade of Sea Gold, riding an Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding

Monwyndel, Daughter of Twilight: Commander with Longbow, Shield, Biting Blade, Shadow Armour and Talisman of Protection

CORE
Neophytes of Hereal: 16 Archers with Light Armour and Full Command

Neophytes of Elysion: 16 Archers with Light Armour and Full Command

Neophytes of Lemuria: 16 Archers with Light Armour and Full Command

Neophytes of Tyranon: 16 Archers with Light Armour and Full Command

The Gleaming Watch: 20 Spearmen with Full Command

The Shining Guard: 20 Spearmen with Full Command

The Glittering Guard: 20 Spearmen with Full Command

The Glimmering Watch: 20 Spearmen with Full Command

The Blades of Lightning: 10 Silver Helms with Shields, Heavy Armour and Full Command

The Riders of The Storm: 10 Silver Helms with Shields, Heavy Armour and Full Command

The Tempest Guard: 20 Lothern Sea Guard with Shields and Full Command

SPECIAL
The Hearts of Scalfron: 10 Dragon Princes with Full Command, Amulet of Fire and Standard of Balance

The Subtle Blade: 20 Swordmasters with Full Command, Guardian Phoenix and Banner of Sorcery

The Hunters of Chrace: 20 White Lions with Full Command, Helm of Fortune and Lion Standard

The Arrow of The Wind: Tiranoc Chariot with Two Additional Steeds

The Spear of The Wind: Tiranoc Chariot with Two Additional Steeds

The Song of Dawn: Tiranoc Chariot

The Triumph of Dawn: Tiranoc Chariot

The Lark's Cry: Tiranoc Chariot

The Swallow's Call: Tiranoc Chariot

The Grace of Kurnous: 10 Ellyrian Reavers with Bows and Full Command

Anwyn's Hunters: 10 Ellyrian Reavers with Bows and Full Command

The Twilight Heralds: 10 Ellyrian Reavers with Bows and Full Command

The Dusk Rangers: 10 Ellyrian Reavers with Bows and Full Command

The Midnight Wardens: 15 Shadow Warriors with Shadow-Walker

RARE
The Guardians of The Secret Fire: 20 Phoenix Guard with Full Command, Dragonscale Shield and Banner of Arcane Protection

Alcatani Fellowship of Pikemen: 15 Alcatani Fellowship Pikemen with Full Command

All in all a respectable fighting force that has seen you through a string of victories across the Old World.

Regrettably it seems that the lords of Saphery have not forgiven you for your spurning of the arranged marriage with one of their most cherished daughters and your tryst with the wild fierce-hearted princess of Nagarythe, Monwen, who stole your heart as easily as she can slip past Druchii patrols. The court of Saphery has sent no aid to your army or your cause, save for a contingent of their elite regiment of Swordmasters under the command of Solanair, your rival for the hand of Monwen, and it has been painfully obvious for sometime that both he and they have been sent for the main purpose of stealing credit for your victories and making you look incompetent in the eyes of the Phoenix Court. Consequently you can count on no form of magical support at all.

To make matters worse, while your expedition was reinforced with a generous contingent of Lothern Sea Guard, their compliment of supporting Eagle Claw bolt throwers was lost in a storm during your voyage to the Old World, and the Shipmasters refused to lend any of their vessels' complement. It is a testament to your skill that you have been able to make do without them thus far.

The final misfortune has been the local Eagles' stubborn refusal to come to your aid. Despite your best efforts to rekindle the bond between Asur and Eagle, these local birds have grown closer to the Asrai that dwell in the shadow of the Grey Mountains and remain aloof to the sons of Ulthuan.

Fortune has not been entirely unkind to you however. Your personal household Dragon Princes remain loyal to you to the end, as does your closest companion Fenix, and you can count upon their unwavering support no matter what. Monwen herself has also sent a band of her Shadow Warrior kinsmen under the command of her sister, Monwyndel, to ensure your safety. Your childhood friend and princess of Ellyrion, Beathryelle, also remains understanding of your affair and joined your expedition at the head of several hosts of Reaver horsemen.

Glormeth, a prince of Tiranoc, has also saw fit to aid you along with a hand-picked retinue of his best Chariots, and your old comrade Fealanar was sent to assist you by the Phoenix Court as well. Most impressive of all however, was a full regiment of the king's own Phoenix Guard that arrived on the docks of Lothern the morning of your departure to join your expedition. They have proven invaluable ever since.

Finally, as the sun sets on another day of grim news of Petyr's blockade, a ragged band of the Alcatani Fellowship of Pikemen arrive at the gates of your stronghold. They have been fighting for many months against the evil of Petyr and are willing to offer you their support in exchange for a generous donation from your war chest to the victims of Petyr's atrocities.

Arrayed against you is the following:
The Fell Legions of the Undying Lord Petyr The Abominable, Master of Death (Necrarch Bloodline)

LORDS
Petyr The Abominable: Level 4 Vampire Lord with Nehekara's Noble Blood, Forbidden Lore, UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

Orlok: Level 3 Vampire Count with Nehekara's Noble Blood, Master of the Black Arts and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS, riding a Winged Nightmare

Robute Mortimer: Level 4 Master Necromancer with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS


HEROES
Radu: Level 1 Vampire Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood

The Keeper: Level 1 Vampire Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood

Kurtis Barlow: Level 1 Vampire Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood, riding a Barded Nightmare

Maloker: Level 1 Vampire Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood, riding a Barded Nightmare

Johan Sebastian: Level 2 Necromancer with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

Richter Van Seden: Level 2 Necromancer with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Dollmaker: Level 2 Necromancer with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Dark Guardian: Wight Lord Battle Standard Bearer with Heavy Armour and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Black Butcher: Wight Lord with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS, riding a Barded Nightmare

Gak: Wight Lord with Heavy Armour, UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

Bloody Jack: Wraith with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS, riding a Barded Ethereal Nightmare

Bluebeard: Wraith with UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

CORE
The Fell Legion: 25 Skeletons with Light Armour and Full Command

The Nightmare Legion: 25 Skeletons with Light Armour, Spears and Full Command

The Forgotten legion: 25 Skeletons with Light Armour, Spears and Full Command

The Damned Legion: 25 Skeletons with Light Armour, Spears and Full Command

The Living Dead: 25 Zombies with Full Command

The Walking Dead: 25 Zombies with Full Command

The Restless Dead: 25 Zombies with Full Command

The Moon Clan: 10 Ghouls with Ghast

The Devil's Children: 10 Ghouls with Ghast

The Hounds of Petyr: 10 Dire Wolves with Doom Wolf

The Children of The Night: 10 Dire Wolves with Doom Wolf

The Fangs of Death: 10 Dire Wolves with Doom Wolf


SPECIAL
The Dead Hand: 20 Grave Guard with Shields, Full Command and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Triumph of Death: 20 Grave Guard with Halberds, Shields, Full Command and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Black Host: 10 Black Knights with Barding, Full Command and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Heralds of Hell: 10 Black Knights with Barding, Full Command and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Black Riders: 10 Black Knights with Barding, Full Command and UNKNOWN MAGIC ITEMS

The Hunger: 10 Fell Bats

The Ravening: 10 Fell Bats

The Lost Souls: 5 Spirit Host bases

RARE
Iron Mary: Banshee

Dread Liz: Banshee

Freezing Freda: Banshee

Screaming Sally: Banshee

Semper Mortis: Black Coach
A formidable force that has already spread terror across the human Empire. You know very little about the sinister figures that lead it, save for the babbling rumours of terrified refugees fleeing before the undead hordes. Your trusty spy managed to confirm that the Vampires had exhumed the abhorrent Book of Arkhan and Staff of Damnation, and that they were fashioning common magic items including Biting Blades, Talismans of Protection, Swords of Battle and Enchanted Shields. They also spotted Familiars in the midst of Petyr's lair.

Your trusty spy also reported that Petyr and his minions had managed to unlock the secrets of the Talon of Death, and that they had unearthed a dangerous forbidden Black Periapt from a defiled crypt, likely where they also found the vile Casket of Ages. The spy also sensed extremely potent magic coming from Petyr's household battle standard.

Unfortunately, your trusty spy was discovered before they could uncover anything more. The last message you received from them indicated that their cover had seemingly been compromised by the whisperings of a magic staff carried by one of Petyr's coterie of fiends. That was two weeks before the mutilated corpse of your trusty spy shambled up to the gates of your stronghold in the middle of the night and uttered a sickening unearthly scream before your warriors finally ended the poor soul's torment.

Monwyndel and her Shadow Warriors have investigated the streams of terrified refugees from the villiages Petyr has attacked to try and uncover a little more. According to them, the refugees speak of infamous long-dead murderers wielding a sword that devours the very soul of its victim, a shield in the style of Bretonnia to the southwest and a black book with the names of all the innocent women that were killed by the bearer, as well as a black gem that, so the tales go, ensures its wearer can never be vanquished.

The villagers also give garbled stories of armoured long-dead warriors piecing themselves together and rising to their feet after being hit with arrows and gunfire, Riders in Black who never miss their sword blows, unbearable deafening screams on the wind before the hordes and unstoppable overwhelming numbers of living dead stretching beyond the horizon.

Your scouts have managed to identify Petyr's route of march, which will take his army through the following points of interest:

1. Berrwyn Crossing
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The Berrwyn Ferry is the only reliable crossing point across the River Lissel for three hundred miles up or downstream, and straddles the most efficient route to your stronghold. The Ferry itself is relatively small and meant for civil use only, so it can accommodate only a single regiment at a time. Your Shadow Warriors have also spied an area of the river just upstream of the Ferry that is shallow enough to be used as a fording point for more warriors, though the treacherous white water conditions will slow down any crossing along there and likely risk injury for all but the most sure-footed adventurer.

The rest of the river is largely impassable and makes for a formidable natural defensive barrier.

Two hills overlook the northern side of the crossing. The smaller of the two has a southern face comprised of razor sharp rock crags, making it largely impassable from that direction, but the remaining sides are perfectly traversable. A treacherous labyrinth of razor sharp rocks is located just north-east of the larger hill and makes for an area of difficult ground. A forest can be found on one side of the smaller hill.

The southern side of the crossing hosts a small human settlement, comprised of The Sleeping Waters Inn, the Church of St Marcus Kneeling and the houses of the men that work there and their families. An area of woodland is just west of the settlement, and a road threads from either side of the crossing itself. two fields of crops can be found between the homesteads and the church, surrounded by stone walls on the north and south sides and wooden fences on the east and west sides.

The church has a moderately large graveyard behind it. Monwyndel has also discovered the remains of an ancient battle between human barbarians in the northwest, just beyond the forest on the north side of the river. There is a collection of cairn barrows located there.

The strategic crossing makes this an ideal point to bring Petyr's hordes to battle.


2. Weatherfork Junction
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Weatherfork Junction is a lonely intersection of two of the major roads threading through the vast Verdenveldt forest that covers much of the northern expanses beyond your stronghold. Devoid of any permanent habitation, it is surrounded on all sides by thick woodland forest, save for the roadways themselves and the lonely hill that overlooks the junction. The junction and the interconnecting roadways are a key part of the most efficient route to your stronghold and one of the most reliable routes for any supply lines.

The dense woodland cover and hill overlooking the junction make it a good site for an ambush.


3. The Willow Marshes
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Miles of festering peat swamp, the Willow Marshes are shunned by most folk of good standing. Though most maps commonly depict the major stretches of marshland as heart-shaped, they are in fact found in all manner of irregular shapes. Each patch of swamp is very difficult ground, and offers no protection whatsoever for any warriors caught within.

Three major areas of razor sharp rocks are to be found as well, also making for difficult ground.

Finally, three large foetid woods can also be found in the area.

Though uninhabited and a very poor battlefield, the Willow Marshes do occupy a largely unoccupied and undefended approach to your stronghold, and could allow Petyr to attack from an unexpected quarter. It is possible there may also be magic items to be found buried within the marshes.


4. The Circle of Kings
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This lonely stretch of wilderness is dominated by a large hill on which is located the legendary Circle of Kings, an ancient edifice of standing stones constructed long ago by human barbarian druids. The edifice itself is comprised of a ring of nine standing stone triliths surrounding a central altar. 5 oak trees surround the site on the hill below.

Though long since abandoned, the Circle of Kings still radiates with palpable magical energy, and is clearly a source of tremendous untapped magical power for any wizard who might make use of it, even during battle around it. It is almost certain that Petyr will attempt to capture the Stone of Kings to harness its power for his own ends.

Surrounding the Circle of Kings are three stretches of forest and a small lake of still mirror-perfect clear water. Your scouts report that they were able to sense some lingering magic within the lake's waters in addition to the Circle of Kings.


5. Wessenchapel (Street Fighting Rules)
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The town of Wessenchapel is the largest human settlement between Petyr's hordes and your stronghold. The local militia and Imperial warriors have abandoned the town, retreating from the overwhelming might of Petyr's army and leaving the townsfolk to fend for themselves. They have little chance of stopping Petyr on their own and have desperately pleaded for anyone to aid them.

The town itself is dominated by the Cathedral of Sigmar Ascendant, built over the original chapel that gave the town its name. The massive Cathedral has a sizeable labyrinth of crypts beneath it, which are said to house many wondrous artefacts, but of equal note is the massive graveyard cemetery directly behind the cathedral. Should Petyr manage to conquer the town the cemetery would swell his hordes with untold numbers of living dead.

The Cathedral is nestled in the centre of the sprawling town, with many buildings of various sizes surrounding it all linked together by a network of cobblestone paths. Any battle here would inevitably feature a great deal of house-to-house fighting.


Castle Schneefort (Warhammer Siege)
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Your own stronghold for your time in the Old World has been Castle Schneefort, a fortress constructed by the human Empire over the site of an ancient Elven fortress built to safeguard their border with the Dwarf empire long ago. The castle was taken over by your expedition shortly after arriving in the Old World, and which has since been refitted to the needs of the Asur for a lengthy campaign.

Located high up in the Grey Mountains, the castle is surrounded on three sides by formidable hills. The sheer size and ruggedness of these hills makes them difficult ground to climb, but once at the summit they do offer high ground overlooking the castle itself. The main approach to the castle has a single road threading up to the gate.

To bring Petyr to battle at your very stronghold itself certainly comes with extreme risk, for he will have had time to amass his forces such that they outnumber yours by at least two to one. Nonetheless, your castle does offer a formidable defensive position, with five towers around its courtyard. The castle defences include 5 cauldrons of boiling oil, which your forces have filled with reserves of Ielthan Alchemical Deathfire. There are also enough rocks and rock-throwers to outfit all of the infantry regiments garrisoning the castle. Unfortunately, the bitter cold of the Grey Mountains prevents any meaningful attempt at reinforcing the gate.

Petyr has besieged other citadels on his way to you, and survivors have claimed no fewer than three siege towers amongst his hordes. A battering ram and two smaller log rams have also been consistently reported, as well as ladders for all the remaining infantry regiments found within his army.


Armed with this knowledge, it now falls to YOU to fight for your fate. You may bring Petyr's army to battle at one, some or all of these locations. You may also use any of the common battle plans at each of them, or a special battle plan found in the Chronicles or the General's Compendium if suitably appropriate (you will need to make a case for it). The sole exception is Castle Schneefort, which will always be the site of a Siege.

Be warned, however - any units or characters lost in one battle will be unavailable for ANY subsequent ones. If you, Prince Scalfron yourself should fall at any point, you will have lost in ultimate defeat.

Now then is the time for you to comment your plans below. You have your army and all the knowledge that can be given. With the forces and information available, how will you defeat Petyr The Abominable and fight your way to freedom and the way home to Ulthuan?

How will you Survive The Night?
Please stop calling it "Middlehammer"

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Alarantalara
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:16 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Alarantalara »

I have one question that doesn't seem to be addressed and should be. Which direction is this foul army coming from? (AKA which side of each battlefield is mine?—other than the siege of course)
Kakapo42
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:35 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Kakapo42 »

Petyr The Abominable has trapped you against the western stretches of the Grey Mountains to the south with a thrust some miles north of you, between your fortress and the northern coast where your fleet is anchored.

This means that his army will nominally be north of you and advancing due south by south-southwest, but your scouts have managed to give you enough early warning of the Undead route of march that you can opt to envelop them or set up a forward defence (in other words you can choose which side of each battlefield you want - other than the siege of course - as part of scenario parameters, hence why it was never directly mentioned)
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Please stop calling it "Middlehammer"

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Just Tony
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:31 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Just Tony »

For the first map: if I'm understanding this correctly, then the only way to cross the river is the ferry. Yes? Then I'd put a small contingent at the port where the ferry crosses and I'd pin them in so they couldn't cross. I'd have another contingent near the banks to pepper the rest of the force with magic and arrows until I could potentially take down their necromancer.


The town fight I have no idea as I've never used the city fight rules for WFB. The rest are all about choke points and fields of fire, honestly.
mattyfenby
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:07 am

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by mattyfenby »

I want to first off thank you for posting such a cool and thoughtful campaign, this was fun just to read.

Secondly I want to ask a few clarifying questions:

Does Intrigue at Court apply here or does Scalfron bypass that when he is present in the lineup?

That leads me to the next question- if his death is an auto fail on the campaign, are we allowed to leave Scalfron “benched” until the final siege battle? To represent him commanding from the Castle HQ and sending his rival out to hopefully die? Or would this be seen as cowardly and he would be too prideful to give his rival the opportunity to achieve glory while he is absent?

Is the death of the enemy Lord Petyr an auto win on the campaign like killing the Night King or would one of his underlings step up and become the enemy Lord for the next battle?

Is Petyr’s army restricted from being full strength before the final battle? Should Petyr’s army be ‘scaling’ to the size of force we choose to bring at each point?

Since any units or characters of ours that are destroyed are destroyed FOREVER, are we allowed to call for a retreat during one of the battles if things are going south? Something like any non destroyed, non fleeing units that intentionally move off our side of the table can be salvaged to regroup for the next attack?

Thirdly I just want to react to the not bringing magic of it all. What a wonderful wrinkle to add. At first you might think ‘High Elves, not bringing magic? That’s silly!’ But with the Elves’ political fuckery this is honestly perfect. They sent the retinue of Phoenix Guard so nobody can claim the state wasn’t supporting the war effort. They sent our rival to make sure we don’t get to take any credit if we win…. and they actually don’t mind us failing so they sent us out to fight the undead with no magic support. That feels so right to me as a way to build the story for us and also force us to change up from what is likely our usual style of playing High Elves.
mattyfenby
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:07 am

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by mattyfenby »

Replying in a second separate post with kneejerk reactions to which “Battle Plan” I think would be most fun for each location.

Berrwyn Crossing: I would play the Meeting Engagement here. They are making for the crossing before we can cut them off and we are rushing there to spoil that.

Weatherfork Junction: As you said yourself, Ambush is a nice Scenario to play here.

Willow Marshes: I would play a Breakthrough here, with the Undead trying to press through to get to the magic item on the next map

Circle of Kings: This one is begging for a Capture.

The final two maps must be played on their specific scenarios. I might try to play this campaign out this is a really fun campaign you have put a lot of heart into.

Depending on the answers to my questions in my previous post, I think the strategy would be all about ‘Kiting’ and continuously falling back while peppering the enemy with arrow fire and sending chariots at units that skulk into range of threatening charges against us. We would want to preserve as many bodies as possible until the siege. With walls and stone throwers I honestly don’t feel too awful about taking that 2 v 1 and if we can just do a modest amount of damage chipping away at them on the way in, I feel like we could withstand the siege. My main fear would be losing too many models in the opening battles or the enemy just summoning unit after unit if I send small forces out to do hit and run attacks and Petyr is allowed to bring his full roster of casters to each location for 6 or more turns.
Kakapo42
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:35 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Kakapo42 »

Just Tony wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:42 am For the first map: if I'm understanding this correctly, then the only way to cross the river is the ferry. Yes?


The Ferry is the fastest and safest way to cross the river. There's also a fording point not far from it, but units moving across that are slowed down and risk injury.
mattyfenby wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:42 pm Does Intrigue at Court apply here or does Scalfron bypass that when he is present in the lineup?

That leads me to the next question- if his death is an auto fail on the campaign, are we allowed to leave Scalfron “benched” until the final siege battle? To represent him commanding from the Castle HQ and sending his rival out to hopefully die? Or would this be seen as cowardly and he would be too prideful to give his rival the opportunity to achieve glory while he is absent?


Being surrounded by the undead only heightens the need for sure and wise leadership and fair representation and discussion. Intrigue At Court and Pure of Heart will both apply for each battle you commit to. Note also that because there are more than six characters in the army you can nominate which five of them are the candidates for being the General in each battle, and have a chance of being left to decide the army General for the battle yourself.

This also means you must commit Scalfron to each battle fought, as he is the army's mandatory Pure of Heart character.
mattyfenby wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:42 pmIs the death of the enemy Lord Petyr an auto win on the campaign like killing the Night King or would one of his underlings step up and become the enemy Lord for the next battle?


Just as the High Elves are bound by courtly intrigue and politics, so too are the Vampire Counts bound by the Laws of Undeath. Petyr The Abominable is the Vampire general controlling the undead, so killing him will cause the army to begin crumbling to dust. Surviving characters will scatter and go into hiding after the battle, leaving the path to your ships clear.

This means that if Petyr is killed and you survive the rest of the battle, you will have survived the night and won.
mattyfenby wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:42 pmIs Petyr’s army restricted from being full strength before the final battle? Should Petyr’s army be ‘scaling’ to the size of force we choose to bring at each point?


Petyr's army is nominally at full strength for each battle fought, plus any bonuses gained from conquering locations. Your army will also by default be fighting at full strength as well unless you choose to employ an asymmetrical battle plan like an Ambush or Sheer Heroism, in which case you will need to nominate which forces to leave behind.

Note also that this applies for any siege of your stronghold too - you will still have access to all remaining forces in your army, with any excess forces over the castle's garrison being part of a relief force that will arrive using the Flanking Force method.

It should also be mentioned that while the units, Wight Lords and Wraiths of Petyr's army will be raised anew and replenished between battles, the Vampires and Necromancers accompanying him will be permanently lost if killed just like your forces.
mattyfenby wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:42 pmSince any units or characters of ours that are destroyed are destroyed FOREVER, are we allowed to call for a retreat during one of the battles if things are going south? Something like any non destroyed, non fleeing units that intentionally move off our side of the table can be salvaged to regroup for the next attack?


You can call for a retreat if you deem the situation dire enough. This will immediately cede the field to Petyr's forces, but will also preserve any surviving High Elves for use elsewhere.

Note also that High Elf units and characters (as well as Vampires and Necromancers) that flee off the table will find their way back to the main camp before the next battle, so are always salvageable. Only units and characters that are wiped out from casualties or run down with pursuit moves are permanently lost.

Remember too that you can choose not to bring Petyr to battle at any of the locations besides your own castle (though ceding a location to him uncontested will guarantee he can gain any advantages from that specific location). Naturally if you vanquish Petyr before he reaches your castle you will not need to fight a siege there.
mattyfenby wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:42 pmThirdly I just want to react to the not bringing magic of it all. What a wonderful wrinkle to add. At first you might think ‘High Elves, not bringing magic? That’s silly!’ But with the Elves’ political fuckery this is honestly perfect. They sent the retinue of Phoenix Guard so nobody can claim the state wasn’t supporting the war effort. They sent our rival to make sure we don’t get to take any credit if we win…. and they actually don’t mind us failing so they sent us out to fight the undead with no magic support. That feels so right to me as a way to build the story for us and also force us to change up from what is likely our usual style of playing High Elves.


Glad you enjoyed it! In the Phoenix Court's defence they honestly weren't expecting any undead to show up when they dispatched you - your original mission was to smash an Orc and Goblin Waaaaaagh! that was getting too dangerous and then go home, and you did smash the Orcs and Goblins, it's just that Petyr then made his move before you could get around to the 'going home' part.

Now, whether or not the Seers of Saphery genuinely failed to foresee Petyr's attack - and if so whether it was an honest mistake or if Petyr himself obfuscated their vision with his own dark magics - or if they did predict it but deliberately withheld the information to set you up for failure is another matter entirely...

Regardless, a lot of this is there to highlight that Warhammer is fundamentally a game of politics and history. Virtually all of the armies in it are backed by feudal systems and controlled by lords (or ladies), so the army's General needs to be a statesman as well as a military commander. That means sometimes you won't get all the forces and assets you want because you failed to navigate the courtly politics properly, or that sometimes a freak accident will take a key weapon out of commission before battle is met. Just like in real life, sometimes your forces will be restricted by political decisions or unexpected mishaps, and you'll need to adapt accordingly.

As the old adage goes, you fight with the army you have, not the army you want.

That's what this series is all about. This one in particular is fundamentally asking the question; without any of the tools Dwarfs have for it, how do you fight an army that has uncontested magic superiority, and win? With a secondary question of how do you win using a High Elf army with none of the most mathematically optimal High Elf units in it?

Obviously that's going to require some smart tactics to adapt and overcome, hence the challenge.
Please stop calling it "Middlehammer"

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Alarantalara
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:16 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Alarantalara »

Berrwyn Crossing:
An excellent place to hold the line. My opponents will need to Breakthrough in order to succeed here and the limited crossing points give me the opportunity to hold the line well. Since this is early on, I expect a smaller engagement with neither me nor any of the true vampires making their presence known (1750 points?). If possible, I would burn the ferry ahead of time to limit their infantry to a single crossing point.

Facing such a vanguard, I expect the undead to try one or more of these tactics.
1. Raising undead on my side of the river without crossing it themselves. To counter this I shall need depth of units and not rely on a single unit to hold the ford.
2. Place a banshee near the ford or ferry to weaken my forces. With no enchanted bows, I shall need to set my forces just within reach of the ford with a single charge and stop them just as they cross. Thus the banshee will be compelled to either cross the river or be far enough away that I am safe. If she should cross, then Anwyn's Hunters will be able to reach and deal with her.
3. Send one or both of the massive hordes of bats across the river to grab a foothold. While not too threatening, their speed will demand a similar response on my part. My cavalry should be able to cover the large area required.
4. Assault the ford with something horrifying: either grave guard or black knights with a thrall or wight lord to lead them. Again, by sitting back from the crossing and charging as they exit the river, I can prevent them from supporting each other and with care, gain a flank attack as well. With the Necrarch's obsession with magic, any commander should suffice to handle them given a force of spearmen for support. In case of fear, I'll need an extra unit to ensure no sudden bout of fear lets the undead clear the crossing.

As such, my force will look something like:
Any two commanders on foot

Primary ford/ferry guards:
The Gleaming Watch
The Shining Guard

Secondary guards, will form up as enemy nears ford in case the spearmen fail their assault and there's no way for the cavalry to charge the flank.
Neophytes of Hereal
Neophytes of Elysion

The Blades of Lightning (for bats or flank attacks)

Anwyn's Hunters (banshees, flank attacks, shooting until then)

Alternative: Use The Fens scenario from the Dark Shadows campaign. It's an alternative breakthrough scenario that makes it a bit easier for the attacker to score points, but lets the defender have extra troops to really gang up on the initial probe into a fortified position.

Weatherfork Junction:
Break out from the Forest (from the General's compendium) would be my first choice here. The enemy must advance and this is exactly the kind of ambush I want to set.
The heavy forest canopy will allow me to hide my units until they're ready to strike.
A mixture of silver helms and archers will make the bulk of my force, supported by The Midnight Wardens and The Hearts of Scalfron. The enemy will be forced to either move at a snail's pace and face innumerable shots from my archers in loose formation, or adopt loose formation themselves and be overwhelmed by charges from fully ranked cavalry. All archers must avoid melee engagement here, preserving their numbers for later.

Failing that, I would abandon the position and not fight if the forests are too light to shoot under the canopy. Restricted maneuvering and no visibility are just too beneficial to the undead for me to waste troops facing them here.

The Willow Marshes:
My cavalry will shine here. As many silver helms and reavers as I can muster, along with myself and my dragon if my foes have wasted their bats at the crossing. The goal shall be to charge in and hunt necromancers before retreating, relying on the marshes to prevent enemy coordination. A simple pitched battle is fine here for achieving my objectives.

The Circle of Kings:
The Ogham Stones is the perfect scenario here, complete with a magic circle. It's also my best chance to use my chariots, aiming for a resounding charge that pushes the undead back and allowing for a sudden claim of victory. Failing that, The Guardians of The Secret Fire should have what it takes to hold the ground.

Castle Schneefort:
Having primarily relied on cavalry up to this point after the initial defense of the river, I should have almost all my archers and infantry available to hold the walls during the siege. I shall of course be present.

PS Just saw your other replies. It would seem I assumed that only parts of the army might be available until the final scenario, because they're both huge and playing such games would take forever. It also seemed plausible that destroying the more unique units (not skeletons and zombies) might create a situation that makes any final battle more favourable by denying the rarer units to the enemy.
Alarantalara
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:16 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Alarantalara »

This feels important enough to comment on separately.
If both armies are at full strength in each scenario, I don't think the elves will survive the first scenario they fight. There's enough power dice here to reliably create two units of 20 zombies and charge them with Danse Macabre every turn. I can't imagine there will be any close combat that doesn't have the elves outnumbered and flanked unless all the cavalry charges together.

Under those assumptions, the elves die at the river crossing. The necromancers advance to the edge of the river, summon a vast horde of zombies on the other side and wait for the elves to cross to have a hope of killing them. If Scalfron gets himself isolated even once, he's instantly mobbed by a summoned horde of 40 zombies and never ever gets out of the fight because no one can win combat by enough to break him free. Any unit that tries to help out is similarly charged. Once he runs, the fell bats charge him, run him down, and the game is over. The junction is even worse since Scalfron can't fly in the forest and there's no need for line of sight to summon more undead. The very difficult terrain in the marsh similarly ensures there is always somewhere convenient to summon a flanking unit.

With these new considerations of having to use everything, I change my answer to hide in the castle, fill it such that nothing can be summoned within, and send in the flanking force of all the cavalry and chariots once it arrives. I suppose I could fight at every location, spend one turn shooting at Orlok with everything possible, then immediately retreat. At least that way one vampire might be missing at the end. Otherwise, it's just a matter of matching the best infantry to the siege towers and trying to last the 8 turns of siege.
Jonathan E
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:42 pm

Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Jonathan E »

I'm afraid I have a doctor's note and a note from my mother excusing me from playing High Elves, thinking about playing High Elves, or treating High Elves with anything less than contempt. THEREFORE!

As a lifelong Undead player (and one whose last table time involved a table dense with movement-restricting terrain) I am most concerned about the first and third possible battlefields. Berrwyn Crossing is essentially a pair of choke points over which my ponderous hordes will have to shamble while being peppered with arrows, while the Willow Marshes are a delightful combination of "open area you'll bog down in" and "covered area you'll bog down in, also probably full of elves." At least Weatherfork will slow the elves down too, and the forest is dense enough to significantly impact the contributions of their archers (although that hill is certainly a concern).

On any of these battlefields I would be reduced to relying on raised dead to disrupt the elven lines and eliminate the archers early on, while nominated elite units reached the key locations. With four Thralls on Invocation duty I am confident enough in my raising capacity that my Master Necromancer will be on Lore of Death duty, as ever hoping for Doom and Darkness to tip the balance of psychological warfare in my favour. Petyr will probably be more or less guaranteed a Curse of Years and I know exactly what its primary target will be - the wretched Phoenix Guard, about whom I am actually quite concerned as they are otherwise a right bugger to shift. I'm likely to lean heavily on the cavalry for fighting in those choke points since they're of less use than anything else in the final battle - one cannot ride a Nightmare across a fortress wall!

I suspect the Circle of Kings is a trap. Beware of suspicious bodies of water around sites of arcane provenance: my dreams of the End Times are defiled by the Rivers of Light reducing every Undead soldier that attempted a crossing to steaming hot Bovril. I already have magical supremacy and there is such a thing as too much.

Wessenchapel could be interesting. On the one hand I suspect the elves will be very hard to winkle out of buildings once they're entrenched - on the other hand there's nothing so snug for a flank as a good honest building to rest against. Careful occupation and pressure of choke points could make every fight into a battle of attrition and there's nothing Undead like more than that.

Come the final siege I don't think there's much call for sophisticated tactics: I'd appreciate a third regiment of Grave Guard (one per tower!) but Skeletons led by a Wraith and Wight Lord should suffice. Zombies on ram duty, flying troops intervening to tip the balance on the walls.
If you're wondering why I'm like this, give this a read.

It's not canon. It's not lore. It's fluff. It's marketing copy to sell toys. Don't take it more seriously than it deserves.

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Just Tony
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Re: Tactics Discussion - SURVIVE THE NIGHT!

Post by Just Tony »

I just caught the part where the High Elves are purposefully handicapped to allow the Vampire Counts to spam their magic unobstructed. I like a challenge so my entire purpose in life would be to target the magic users to quash reinforcements and then simply let my better stat lines prevail.
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